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Answering Mr. Franklin Li on James 2 explained


Answer: oftentimes, protestants try to contest Catholics about how James 2 is taken into context. Here is an example: Note: I will use the argument of Mr. Franklin Li (which can be read in his personal apologetic blog) since he is one of the vocal defenders of Faith-alone doctrine in Cebu.

He said: The fact is James 2 talks about justification which is MORE than salvation. Salvation means saving, justification is setting things right AFTER NOT PRIOR to salvation. Let’s try and see what James 2 really means.

Answer: the point there is that James 2 explains on how a man is truly saved, not just on how a man is justified, that’s why if we read the preceding texts of it (especially James 2:14), it talks on salvation that is being maintained by those 2 elements (though using this word is awkward to apply), the faith and works that is of God’s will. We all know also that justification is different from salvation. The Catholic Church is in agreement to the fact that one’s salvation is not based on either works-alone or faith-alone, but rather on grace-alone that was given to us by God, and since it is a free gift from Him, the faith which is being understood on that verse is received because of the grace He showered unto us, and the works that is from God’s will is the one who maintains the grace received, without the cooperation of those two elements, the faith remains stagnant.

He said: James 2 talks about faith and works saying that faith PRODUCES works. It’s the fruit of salvation.

Answer: the chapter did not even say that works is just the product of faith. We all know that many of us have faith in Christ, even people who are adamant in doing bad things also have faith in Christ, but did not produce works in the first place SINCE THEY DID NOT WORK OUT the faith they received through the grace that is given freely by God.

He said: Often ignored or even twisted is James 2:10 which talks about how SINFUL we really are- break one part of the law and ALL is broken. Even the Catholic Bible states that. The Good News Bible even says it that way! The fact is NOBODY can keep the whole law. The Catholic doctrine of lordship salvation is STUPID!

Answer: in that case, james 2:10 is emphasizing to the law that was given by God to maintain and must not break it, but since NOBODY can perfectly keep the law, we are subjected to work out of it and repent if we broke those such, that’s why, keeping the law needs effort in order to make it happen.

He said: James 2:23 says, “And Abraham believed God and was imputed into him righteousness and his faith was put up right with God.” in the Catholic Bible. Simple. Notice the words: believed God and was imputed into him RIGHTEOUSNESS. Answer: but you rejected the previous texts of it (read James 2:21-22) that Abraham’s obedience (good works) of offering his son to God at the altar made him justified. Notice the words: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou that faith did cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect? It only shows that since he(Abraham) accepted God and believed in Him, he maintained it by obeying what God commanded him to do so (and that is to offer his son). It also shows that the two elements cooperate with each other in the salvific plan of God to us. He said: The fact is faith is the root. Faith + Christ = salvation. Salvation results to good works, not the other way around. That means, I do good works because I am saved, not to be saved. Jesus is my Lord because I’m saved, I’ll endure to the end only because I’m saved.

Answer: wrong formula: the right formula that James 2 is trying to explain to us is this: Salvation (total liberation from sins)= faith (received by grace) + works that is of God’s will (maintains the grace received). So good works are not just manifestations…but a cooperation to the grace that God gave to us. The formulation of Mr. Li is really absurd and misleading and since his OWN FORMULATION did not even help his reasoning to support sola-fide doctrine, it all ended to Mr. Li’s personal interpretation of the scriptures. And by the way, Not all who believed that they are saved are doing good works, notice how many of our brethren remain stagnant and are waiting for the time they will get old before they will go back to God. You see, they are just waiting for it. I remember a Baptist friend of mine who is doing bad things when we are still in college often reason out that he doesn’t need to do good things because what is important is that you are saved since you already believed in Him, no matter how bad you are. Isn’t it a contradiction to the words you said Mr. Li? Anyway, he is just one of the protestant friends whom I talked with and have that kind of mentality, and there are still plenty of them in which I think if I will write down the names of them, it would be very impossible for you to locate and give sermon to them Mr. Li.

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Did Mr. Franklin Li really verified the claims of Mr. Alberto Rivera?


I would like to refute his article on Mr. Alberto Rivera since the owner of papalbusters.blogspot.com officially claimed that Mr. Alberto’s claims are true. By the way, this is to inform you that if we are going to read his article, it remained to be not substantial and has no source to make his claims true.

Here are my refutes: The title of the post is : “Alberto Rivera’s Claims Verified”

here is the source: http://papalbusters.blogspot.com/2008/10/alberto-riveras-claims-verified.html

 If anybody thinks the last Pastor Alberto Romero Rivera was just making things up may want to consider reading his testimony along with others. Is he a fraud? Not at all.

Answer: actually, many Christians believed that what he claimed are hearsays and unsubstantial for those are just inventions of Jack Chick.

The claims published by Jack T. Chick (but I abhor his Zionist superstitions and implied Lordship salvation in his ministry especially the tract “Why No Revival”) in the book “Smokescreens” make so much sense with reliable photographic evidence.

  Ans: those are just illusions and fabrications made by Mr. Jack Chick, think of it, anybody can make or edit evidences in order to make a certain claim to be valid. Likewise, even if he documented documents about Mr. Rivera’s tour to any place. It does not count the validity of Mr. Rivera’s claims on his priesthood.

Alberto Rivera’s comic book has been so hated by the media because when you read what it says about the priests with what is happening today.

Ans: wrong, media practitioners never had been hating the book of Mr. Rivera, they just love to criticise his writings because of inconsistencies and inaccuracies of his claims. Mr. Rivera never had been a Jesuit priest in the first place, it is funny that until now, protestants like you seems to be an avid fan of Mr. Chick and Rivera’s misrepresentations of the Catholic faith.

Sidney Hunter’s book “The Secret History of the Jesuits” is so powerful that Jesuit churches have been determined to get rid of the book. As crazy as the claim sounds, it has been defended.

 Ans: I had never seen Catholic Priests (especially Jesuits) got rid with this book. I certainly say we find it funny that Mr. Li is fond of dramatizing the event. What a loss!

Former Catholic testimony from Clark Butterfield (a former priest) and Donna Eubanks (a former nun) that Alberto Rivera is telling the truth. I am no exception being a former Catholic and since I read it as a saved man, the contents DO tell the truth. I for one will keep it alive and well. That’s why I am writing this blog.

Ans: ok ok, granting WITHOUT admitting that what Mr. Butterfield and Ms. Donna Eubanks say are true, then why did the closest fellows of Mr. Alberto, in the person of Mr. Bartholomew F. Brewer, a former priest and the colleague of Mr. Alberto in the attempts of his to join in his mission verified that he did not even know a single idea about Catholic theology.

 Knowing Adolph Hitler is recorded as a religious Catholic, the papal nuncio’s pictures in the comic book “The Godfathers” and “Smokescreens” are incredibly accurate.

Ans: this is a type of diversion to the original proposition, does it fit the life of Mr. Alberto in the first place, Mr. Li? I bet it isn’t. maybe you should expose this to other post in your blog since this is not relevant to the issue.

They were not altered. These pictures are kept away from the public as so the world will not know that the Vatican had an alliance with Adolph Hitler prior to being attacked.

Ans: would you mind to please make another post for this? Please. You are trying to divert the issue.

Looking at the way Jesuits infiltrate the offices, we see Catholicism take so actively in shaping the world economy- and today the U.S. is crashing down thanks to Jesuit infiltration and it is proof positive because of the Vatican-U.S. relations with the president. 9/11 was a cover-up with Islam as the implementor but the Vatican is the mastermind behind it.

Ans; well another form of diversion to the original topic. Mr. Li is making hearsays and never presented a clear evidence with regards to the claim of Mr. Alberto Rivera. Come to think of it readers, if you will try to review his post, where there any concrete evidence in his claims?

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Ang Kapalpakan ng Isang Pastor Bautista sa Kasaysayan ng Iglesya



Si Pastor Melvin Pascual (revmelvin) ay isa sa masugid na debatista sa Christianster (www.christianster.com), isang hindi-katolikong forum site na hinahawakan din ng isang hindi katolikong indibidwal. Sa 3-4 na taong pakikipagtunggali ko kay Pastor Melvin, ay masugid naming napagdiskusyonan ang mga doktrina at mga issue na nabibilang diumano ang Iglesiya Katolika. Isa na sa issue rito ang Church History. Hanggang ngayon ay mainit pa rin ang labanan namin at masaya ko itong ibabahagi sa inyo.

(Babala: pansinin kung papaano niya nilayo ang usapan at pilit niyang nilalagay ang mga ito sa ibang usapin kung alam niyang naiipit na siya sa argumento)

Nagsimula ang argumento sa pagsaw-saw ko sa usapin:

(tinagalog ko ang halos lahat ng aming pinag-usapan upang mas madali itong maunawaan ng mga mambabasa)

Pastor Melvin: Anong “good side” ng Roman Catholic? Hypocritical kaya lahat yun.

Flewen (ako): tsk tsk tsk, hanggang ngayon si pastor, hindi pa rin natututo..INTELLECTUALLY ..

Pastor Melvin: Against sila sa abortion, e puro catholic faithful kaya ang mga abortionist at nagpapa abort.

Flewen (akin): that is a personal mistake again pastor, para namang assured ka na walang mga baptist ang gumagawa rin ng ganyang kalokohan, they may be Catholic in name, but they are not practicing what they believe because of their own decision in agreeing to abortion. The same as many baptists who also choose to abort their child because of personal decision. In short pastor, kung matalino kang pastor, you might wonder why many teenagers have this liberated point of view with regards to that issue. Ask them, and you will see how some of them will hesitate to neither answer nor admit they had done those mistakes or will deny and assume they were pro-life advocates. gamitin ang utak minsan pastor.

Pastor Melvin: against sila sa war, e catholic cardinals at bishops ang nagbasbas kay Hitler at kay Franco ng Italy kaya nangyari ang world war 2.

Flewen (akin): Sinong maysabi? Kung maingat ka lang sa pag-iintindi sa mga nangyari noong WW2, hindi ang mga Obispo at mga cardinal ang nagbasbas kay Hitler na gawin ito. Careful reading sa kasaysayang sekyular na nagpapatunay na ang Iglesiya (Katolika) noong panahon ng holocaust ay naging malaking TULONG upang pigilan ang walang habas na di makataong gawain ni Hitler, kung matalino ka lang (sa pagbabasa), nabasa mo sana ito:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0024.html

(sa sumunod na poste niya ay pilit niyang nilayo ang usapin at hanggang ngayon, hindi niya ito masagot sagot, isipin niyo kaya kung bakit?)

Pastor Melvin: against sila homosexuality at sexual immorality, e ilang paring katoliko kaya ang phedopiles at mga bishops ang nambutis ng mga madre.

Flewen (akin): Again, ipinapakita mo lang ang pagkaignorante mo sa issue, Ilang ulit ko na itong napag-usapan kay inyong_lingkod(makikita ninyo sa next post ko ang pinagdebatehan namin ni inyong_lingkod about clerical abuse) at hanggang ngayon napabayaan(nilangaw) na niya ang argumento na dapat patunayan sa pamamagitan ng mga “datos” na marami sa mga pari diumano ang lumabag at gumawa ng makamundong Gawain either sa mga madre o sa mga nagtatrabaho sa simbahan. (dagdag: naipit kasi si inyong_lingkod nang pinakita ko na 2-4% lamang sa mga pari ang naging pasaway sa tungkulin laban sa 15% sa southern Baptist pa lang iyan)

Pastor Melvin: against sila sa religious persecution, ilan kayang evangelicals ang pinatay at ikinulong ng mga Catholics sa Mexico.

Flewen(akin): Ito ay isa na namang ebdiensiya sa galit mo (sa simbahan), kung matiyaga ka lang sa pagbabasa sa INTERNET o sa NEWSPAPER, mababasa mo ang terminong “INDIVIDUAL TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS WITH NATIVE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES” na nag-persecute sa kanila…OO, katoliko…pero mga etnikong tradisyunal na katoliko (ewan ko lang kung nakakaintindi si pastor Melvin nito) na hindi naman kaanib sa Iglesiya Katolika Romana…kung matiyaga ka lang sa pag-aaral ng kasaysayan pastor, ang indibidwal na kapabayaan at mga abuso nito ay hindi nagpapatunay na nag-rerepresent na ito sa pangkalahatang pangyayari, halata kasing pinipertain mo ito lahat sa Iglesiya Katolika na siya ang may pakana nito at iyan ay isang KALOKOHAN!.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/evangelical.christians.in.mexico.increasingly.persecuted.by.traditional.catholics/9539.htm

tandaan, hindi ito Katolikong artikulo.

Pastor Melvin: E ang DOING GOOD WORKS sa SIMBAHANG CATOLIKO is your way up to gain FAVOR sa God.

Flewen (ako): Depende pastor, dahil ang Iglesiya Katolika ay HINDI (kailanman) naniniwala sa GAWA-LAMANG sa kaligtasan.

Pastor Melvin: Read mo kaya ito sa Bibliya: Isaiah 64:6

Flewen (akin): ANONG klaseng gawa ba ang ibig mong sabihin, ANG GAWA ayon sa BATAS? O Ang GAWA ayon sa KAGUSTUHAN ng ating Diyos? (hanggang ngayon, hindi naiintindihan ni pastor kung ano ba ang “gawang” ibig ipahiwatig ng Diyos sa Isaiah 64:6)

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